Let gay people get married
1) It ruins the sanctity of marriage - The sanctity of marriage? Does that even exist? How about we protect the sanctity of marriage by reducing our divorce rates first. Or better yet, protect the sanctity of marriage by being good, financially responsible, and loving parents. Obviously as a country we are not doing that with all the foreclosures, childhood obesity, and school shooting we are living with everyday. Sorry, but gay people can't ruin the sanctity of marriage anymore than straight people already have.
2) Marriage is a commitment between a man and woman - I think being a man, or a woman is about a lot more than having a penis or breasts. It's about committing to the responsibility of either bringing home the bacon, nurturing the family, or both. In today's society, there are numerous examples of role reversals in nuclear-type families. The "man" stays at home to take care of the kids, and the "woman" goes to work. So in practice, the definition of "man" and "woman" has been greatly redefined. Should we are to stop people from living happy, fulfilling lives because we are unable to update our vocabulary?
3) It's a sin - Not washing your hands before dinner is a sin. Please........... "Let those who have NOT sinned throw the first rock". Jesus taught us to show love and compassion to a prostitute, a tax collector, and a thief. Gay people are not prostitutes, tax collectors, or thieves, yet so many of us are in the crowd ready to stone them to death. I don't know what version of the bible you are reading, but God has always taught me to have compassion for everyone.
To sum it all up, the simple fact is, this is a matter of Church and State. Religion, of any flavor, should not enforce it's rules and edict on people of the State.
If you're religion, like mine, doesn't favor homosexuality, then you have the responsibility to your faith of choosing the right path. But don't go around forcing your fellow neighbors to adopt your beliefs. If you want to live a society where religion tells the government what to do, move to the Middle East.
Jesus said, "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar." Marriage, outside of a church, is a property of the State. If gay people want to force you to let them marry inside your Church, then you can get mad all you want, but that's not what they are asking. Most gay people are just asking for some respect.
Comments
July 17, 2008, 03:26:40 FlyMeAPenguin wrote:
Amen!
August 23, 2008, 05:28:42 Storm wrote:
Since you asked:
Why is Gay Marriage a bad idea? Let's see if we can explain this.
1. First, I want to say, I could be wrong about my opinion of Gay Marriage. So let me tell you my thinking on this. We aren’t against Gay Marriage because we are homophobic. We are against it because we believe we have valid reasons. These include reasons that do not appeal to religion or the Bible or the Koran. In other words these are valid reasons even for those who are not Islamic or Christian or religious in any way. Perhaps I can explain these reasons and you can tell me if you agree with them.
2. To refute the argument I am about to present you have to show a counter argument. You have to show that either my facts are wrong or my logic is wrong. Calling me names like intolerant or questioning my motives or my culture is a fallacy that does not work rationally. It merely shows the ignorance and the irrationality of the name caller.
3. Would you agree that we create governments to ensure a safe life for us and our children? After all we are the government. The laws we create are laws for the benefit of our culture and our grandkids. It is in the interest of all Governments to govern for the survival of its people and its culture. As you know bad laws can destroy our culture and jeopardize our children's' future. Thus, this is an issue that government should be involved in. Similarly would you agree that the Church or the Temple is also interested in the culture and the effect it has on children, thus the religious groups also have a vested interest in any issue that may affect our kids. This is especially true if a bad law would increase suffering that the church would have to help alleviate. We need to look at all laws compassionately and understand who would be hurt the most.
continued below
August 23, 2008, 05:29:26 Storm wrote:
Contiued from above
4. Studies have shown that Gay Marriage socially devalues marriage and reduces its exclusivity and thus its desirability.” Studies of countries that have had some sort of legalized Gay Marriage for over 10 years reveal that legalizing Gay Marriage decreases marriages, increases cohabitation and out of wedlock births and increases single parent families. This is statistically true and rather obvious when you think about it, if marriage has no special place in society and anybody can get married to anyone without limitations, then it becomes just a piece of paper. Once it’s just a piece of paper many couples as we have seen choose to forgo marriage. Statistically, unmarried couples with kids separate at a rate 2x to 3x greater than married couples with kids. It is also obvious that if marriage is not seen as a sacred and special covenant, people are more likely to divorce than attempt to make it work. Again, this is not an opinion but a conclusion derived from the facts.
5. Why is this relevant? It’s because statistical evidence shows that children born or brought up out of wedlock, with a single parent or in a divorced home, while only 29% of the population, are the single greatest source of crime (70%), rapists (60%), suicides (65%), welfare recipients (>80%) & gang members . These kids also fail in school more often, are more violent and these children also use up the greatest amount of our social resources. In addition, non-nuclear families are the poorest statistically. This means that any child from one of these homes has a 2x to 3x chance of becoming a burden to society rather than a productive part of society. This also means that these unfortunate kids are at a higher risk to experience pain and suffering and abuse.
Numerous studies have shown that every child needs a stable family with a male father and female mother (ideally biological parents) or they suffer physical and emotional and other consequences. Thus any law or policy or cultural norm that breaks down this family structure will increase all the above and gravely endanger the future of our children; including the ones unfortunate enough to be born outside a stable family. We need to focus on stopping the causes, not just fighting the symptoms. Please note: at no time in this argument have we brought up any objections to gay parents or gay adoptions, while we can argue about those issues separately they are irrelevant to this current argument.
6. Since Gay Marriage has the proven tendency to put more children at risk even as an indirect effect, the only compassionate conclusion we can come up with is that it is against the interest of society, government, churches and all parents to allow Gay Marriage to be legalized without much further study. Statistics prove it. This would be a bad law and it would hurt kids the most. What I have presented is not a religious argument. It is a rational factual argument. If we care about kids we will care about what happens to them.
Remember: I could be wrong in all this, but to refute this argument and convince logically thinking compassionate people otherwise you’d have to refute the facts and logic I’ve presented, not attack my motives or me. i.e. it is not sufficient to show that I am homophobic or intolerant. Even if I were you have to show why my facts are wrong or my conclusion is illogical to refute my argument. If you can show me a compelling reason why Gay Marriage would not affect or reduce out of wedlock rates or decrease heterosexual marriage and thus hurt kids, I would be willing to reconsider Gay Marriage. But until someone can refute this argument and show proven benefits, don't we agree that our children’s' futures are too sensitive to gamble on an unknown and perhaps potentially dangerous law. At the least we need much more statistical and social analysis. Compassion dictates that we move with great caution.
August 23, 2008, 05:29:41 Storm wrote:
References for above:
Secular Sources:
1. Judith S. Wallerstein and Joan B. Kelly, Surviving the Breakup (New York: Basic Books, 1980), 33, 4, 236, 46, 211.
2. Wade Horn and Andrew Bush, "Fathers, Marriage, and Welfare Reform," Hudson Institute Executive Briefing, 1997, Hudson Institute, Herman Kahn Center, 5395 Emerson Way, Indianapolis, IN 46226, (317) 545-1000. Quoted from http://patriot.net/~crouch/...
3. Ramsey Clark, Crime in America: Observations on Its Nature, Causes, Prevention and Control (New York: Pocket Books, 1970), p.39. Cited in Amneus, The Garbage Generation.
4. Is Making Divorce Easier Bad for Children? The Long-Run Implications of Unilateral Divorce by Jonathan Gruber, Massachusetts Institute of Technology and National Bureau of Economic Research. http://www.journals.uchicag... You can read the draft here (but have to pay money for the actual study). While I recommend reading the entire study, The draft is sufficient to see the point.
5. The End of Marriage in Scandinavia by Stanley Kurtz 02/02/2004, Volume 009, Issue 20
http://www.weeklystandard.c...
Religious Sources:
1. http://family.custhelp.com/...
2. iMAPP: New Research on Married Parents and Crime: Are children raised outside of intact marriages at increased risk for crime and delinquency? iMAPP's latest policy brief "Can Married Parents Prevent Crime? Recent Research on Family Structure and Delinquency 2000-2005" looks at empirical research from the United States published in peer-reviewed journals since 2000. September 21, 2005
3. http://www.marriagedebate.c...
4. http://www.divorcereform.or...
5. http://family.custhelp.com/...
September 04, 2008, 04:04:05 Tami wrote:
Storm.
Shut up, you have no right to judge anyone.
Who cares about how you feel about it, as
long as you're doing what you feel is right
you shouldn't be worried about it. If gays
are going to have sex and live together what
difference does it make for them to get married?
It doesn't change anything at all.